Reasons You Shouldn’t Fuck Kids

Reason #181: Ancient Greece
June 21, 2010, 12:39 pm
Filed under: Uncategorized | Tags: , ,

 You remember that colleague who argued with me about how some kids get fucked and are okay (when really none of us are okay)?  In that same argument, she also said: “It’s been happening all throughout history and it is still accepted in other cultures.” 

I like to call this line of thinking “the same bullshit that many pedophiles use when they tell themselves it’s okay to fuck kids.”

Whenever I hear people say that it is acceptable to fuck kids in certain cultures, I always think to myself “Yeah, and in those cultures, those kids are victims of rape, same as in our culture.”

Take Ancient Greece, for example.  The Ancient Greeks used to fuck little boys, turning history into cycles of pedophiles, and now everyone points to this type of example as ‘proof’ that some cultures think (or used to think) that fucking kids is okay.  The thing is, a lot of things used to be okay.  Like wife killing.  Or a modern day example, smoking.  Smoking was thought to be okay too until it was proven that it will kill you. 

The truth is, none of us were alive during Ancient Greece, so we can’t say definitively what happened there, but shit, I can take an educated guess based on the survivors of today.  And my guess is that they got as fucked up from their abuse as we do today.  Do people, like my friend, actually fool themselves into thinking this was not abuse??  That this was somehow the choice that those little boys would have made?  That just because adults said it was good for them, the kids weren’t fucked up from it?  Adults groom kids into sex abuse now too, same as they did then. 

If those Ancient Greek boys had access to computers and blogs, I bet one of them would be writing this as their 181st reason not to fuck kids too, because they too would have had 180 reasons before this one how the sex abuse fucked them up.

14 Comments so far
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There is something to be said for historical/cultural perspective, but one has to take into account ALL variables. For example, I am no expert on Ancient Greece, but I do know that there are tribes in the world today that practice acceptable forms of what we might consider incest. Now, it’s hardly as simple as saying, “Oh, well, those kids are fine, so fucking kids is great.” The behavior I’m referring to involves initiating adolescents into sex with an aunt/uncle. Two big reasons jump to mind why this is different. For one, these kids are adolescents, at least 13-years-old most of the time, blossoming into adulthood. (Not that being incested at that age is less damaging or horrifying than any other.) And two, this is the big one, there’s not a system of silence and repression set up to silence victims. Ok, so maybe you’re not thrilled about having to have sex with your uncle, but there’s an open dialogue in your community about it. You can talk to other adults, you can talk to other adolescents, you can talk to anyone about it. And that, in my opinion, is the key.

It’s not to say that adults engaging in sexual activity with children isn’t damaging to the child. True, that adolescents are curious and have sex drives, but I personally think those should be explored in healthy ways (with oneself) or with someone of comparable age (not that you can’t be taken advantage of by someone of the same age, either).

However, it’s clear to me that the bulk of the psychological damage that comes from incest has to do with the silence that surrounds it, the shame that we are taught to feel– that this is somehow our fault, or perhaps we’re told that this is “love.” Either way, it’s a secret we share with our abuser, and likely threats to keep us quiet were made, over and over again.

So what of little boys in Ancient Greece? It depends, were they silenced by Greek society, or were they free to question?

Comment by Natalie Rose

Ok, I usually don’t get so worked up over someone else’s comment, but I totally disagree with the comment up there.

Crap. That’s what that is! no way to support that it is ok to fuck a child, i don’t care what society says. So, it was ok for women to be killed for having sex during biblical times? Their terror wasn’t there because they could talk about it? What about racism? IT was ok because it was generally accepted that blacks could not drink from a white waterfountain? The holocost was ok because everyone within the society…not those looking from the outside in decided it was ok? That’s crap too. If we overanalyse this, we can find holes and intellectualize rape as well. I am not ok with that reasoning.

Thanks for talking about this butterfly. I agree, this is definitely a reason not to fuck a child.

journal of healing

Comment by journalofhealing

I am, by no means, justifying sex with children. I do think, however, that even society and culture deals with the issue very differently. What I find to be so damaging in this day and age is less the events themselves (horrific, though they are) and the way we, as a society, respond to them. Namely, with silence and disbelief. This teaches victims to be shameful, that no one will believe them, that their pain is unimportant– just to name a few. In some ways, the damage and stigma we inflict on victims is worse than the initial trauma. Think about it– if you’re in a fire, the fire brigade comes to save you, family and friends rally around you, and in due time you can heal that trauma. When you’re raped, especially as a child, either no one believes you, or people spew long lists of reasons why it was actually your fault or you were “asking for it.” How do you heal that way?

Comment by Natalie Rose

I don’t want this to become some sort of weird debate, since I think we are all saying that fucking kids is wrong. To clarify my blog entry though: I think that fucking kids is a bad idea, whether or not it is a known-and-talked-about thing, or whether no one talks about it. The fucking of children is wrong, and the lack of support afterwards is wrong too. A culture where fucking kids is an acceptable way of initiating children into sex is also wrong (whether in Ancient Greece or in present day anywhere). I am unaware of any studies that looked at whether those kids are fucked up, but I bet if we did, I bet we’d find a shitload of problems with these survivors of sex abuse just as we do with other survivors of sex abuse.

Comment by butterflysblog

Ummmm can I just say your colleague needs to fuck off, she should spend a night at a mens maximum security prison and let us know if she is ” alright”!

Comment by PhoenixAscending

@PhoenixAscending – you are hysterical. Thank you for the laugh.

Comment by butterflysblog

You are much obliged, ma’am ! 😉

Comment by PhoenixAscending

This kind of thinking not only speaks of how fucked up people’s perceptions are of sexual abuse, but also of how completely terrible and flawed their morality is. This kind of authority-based opinion, this “it has a history and so it’s okay” argument, tells you a lot about how much people seriously lack any ability to critically think for themselves. I’ve encountered this same thing with lots of other issues:

“we should do this because it’s in The Bible. The Bible is the word of God.” Okay, then who wrote it?

“Piracy is wrong- just look at the people in jail because of it” – So it’s wrong because it’s against the law, and it’s against the law because it’s wrong?

“Homosexuality is wrong because it goes against tradition”

the examples go on and on. You shouldn’t waste your time on people with as mind-numbingly simplistic worldviews and beliefs as “it’s happened before so it’s okay”.

Comment by TreatInfamy

I find this discussion very interesting . . . and I just have to put in my two cent’s worth . . .

I have debated some of these issues in my mind . . . like, if the culture says it is okay for girls to be married at 13, does it mean it is okay?

I think it is all about the ability to concent to sexual activity with a full understanding of the consequences . . . and I don’t know of any 13 year old who has that ability . . . at 13, all the girls (and boys) I know are so strongly under the influence of peer pressure and social pressure that they don’t seem capable of knowing their own minds.

I’m glad you are willing to dive into such a sensitive topic!

– Marie (Coming Out of the Trees)

Comment by Marie

Marie’s question (“if the culture says it is okay for girls to be married at 13, does it mean it is okay?”) prompted my comment.

My great-grandma married at 13. Her husband was 19. They bought a small farm with help from family, built a log house, and farmed there for over 45 years. My great-grandfather also taught school and was a state legislator. They had 11 children together and adopted another child.

Today he would be considered a sex offender and she would be considered his victim.

So I am not sure what to think about my great-grandfather, who was a gentle and affectionate husband and father, according to my grandmother, and a hard-working and respected member of his community, and my great-grandmother, whose epitaph is “Her children rise up and call her blessed, her husband also.”

Comment by sfemama

This person sounds like a child sexual abuser. I don’t see it any other way. I don’t understand someone who would suggest it is accepted somewhere. It is universally a taboo, but still perpetrated everywhere.

Marrying off underage child is abuse but it is not widely accepted. It is not accepted in the modern Western countries.

Greece had slaves too. There are still slaves and it even happens in countries, like ours, when it is illegal. No one would suggest that that means that it is okay and there is nothing wrong with it.

We as a people cannot form our ethics, morals, and laws according to what societies that are ancient or unequal in human rights say is right.

I can’t understand this person, just because female genital mutilation exists and is done to young girls doesn’t mean it is illegal or right to do here. It means nothing except that somewhere a child is being abused.

Good and healing thoughts to you.


Comment by kate1975

Kate – this was so well put. “We as a people cannot form our ethics, morals, and laws according to what societies that are ancient or unequal in human rights say is right.” Bravo, friend. Beautiful.

Comment by butterflysblog

I hate the concept that says “well, this is what they do in this culture” or “well, this is how it was done in the past”, like that is an excuse to treat children this way.

It wasn’t right back then, and it’s not right now, I don’t care what culture you are in.

Comment by insaneheart09

Hi Butterfly,

You’re welcome. Good and healing thoughts to you.


Comment by kate1975

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